Curse

Ira Blinks · Jul 08, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

As to AFK leechers, you may find that behavior unsportsmanlike or irritating -- many of us do -- but where is it a support issue?

When I read that my first reaction was: huh? Seriously I fail to see any logic behind this....
First she admits there is a problem by calling AFK players leechers, the turns around and says hey there is no problem. Well, what is a leecher then? According to wiki leecher is a person who intentionally goes AFK during the mission to gain faction points or finish storyline mission while not playing the game.
I don't know about ms Gray, but this sounds like an exploit to me. And intentional use of exploit IS a support issue.
In case you disagree here is a Google definition (the one that is relevant to computer games)

Quote:

An exploit is when you take advantage of a bug in a MMORPG. For example maybe you find a way to get an unlimited amount of a certain item. If you use that bug to make progress in the game you’re exploiting.

This definition gives us two point using which we can identify an exploit.

1) Software bug.
There is not doubt that the bug exists. You can call it poor design or fundamental issue, it doesn't matter. It is a vulnerability allowing unsportsmanlike players to gain unfair advantage. Therefore it is a bug.

2) Players' intent to use that bug to gain unfair advantage or disrupt gaming experience of others.
Both intent and gain are pretty obvious. I mean I'm sorry but I do not believe that someone being AFK for few games in a row does that unintentionally.

First you have to be there every time to push "enter" button, and then you have to be very patient to sit there and wait until the game ends to push it again. Thus we get bots... Don't tell me bots are undetectable. ANet found way to detect 55 bots and ban them, why can't they do it here?

I'm sorry dear ANet, but this is BS. Stop making up excuses and at least admit that problem exists and needs a solution instead of "ummm... maybe next year we will roll out something useless like WTS fix...". Don't you understand that most leechers MOTIVATE their behavior by the fact that ANet says that they doing nothing wrong!?
Please ANet, make up your mind! Show us a strong position! Ban a dozen of the most active (or rather most inactive) leechers, announce that you've banned hundred and I guarantee you the problem will reduce itself to almost negligible annoyance the next day.

Rogmar · Jul 08, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Well technically she's right, it has nothing to do with the game's construction. Your definitions of an exploit don't apply to this either. It's not a bug because you can take advantage of it, it's a bug if something doesn't work properly
It definitely does not work as intended, but there's nothing wrong with the game itself, it's the players.
I do see this as a huge problem, but the argument you put up is full of flaws starting with the thought that this is a Bug

Loviatar · Jul 08, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

When I read that my first reaction was: huh? Seriously I fail to see any logic behind this....
First she admits there is a problem by calling AFK players leechers, the turns around and says hey there is no problem. day.

reading comprenhension 101.

she said it was a poor sport player problem and not a problem for the support team.

she did not say there was no problem, she said it was not in supports baliwick

Samuel Dravis · Jul 08, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Yeah, it's not a bug. I think it should be addressed somehow, but it's not a bug.

lilnate22 · Jul 08, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

When I read that my first reaction was: huh? Seriously I fail to see any logic behind this....
First she admits there is a problem by calling AFK players leechers, the turns around and says hey there is no problem. Well, what is a leecher then? According to wiki leecher is a person who intentionally goes AFK during the mission to gain faction points or finish storyline mission while not playing the game.
I don't know about ms Gray, but this sounds like an exploit to me. And intentional use of exploit IS a support issue.
In case you disagree here is a Google definition (the one that is relevant to computer games)
This definition gives us two point using which we can identify an exploit.

1) Software bug.
There is not doubt that the bug exists. You can call it poor design or fundamental issue, it doesn't matter. It is a vulnerability allowing unsportsmanlike players to gain unfair advantage. Therefore it is a bug.

2) Players' intent to use that bug to gain unfair advantage or disrupt gaming experience of others.
Both intent and gain are pretty obvious. I mean I'm sorry but I do not believe that someone being AFK for few games in a row does that unintentionally.

First you have to be there every time to push "enter" button, and then you have to be very patient to sit there and wait until the game ends to push it again. Thus we get bots... Don't tell me bots are undetectable. ANet found way to detect 55 bots and ban them, why can't they do it here?

I'm sorry dear ANet, but this is BS. Stop making up excuses and at least admit that problem exists and needs a solution instead of "ummm... maybe next year we will roll out something useless like WTS fix...". Don't you understand that most leechers MOTIVATE their behavior by the fact that ANet says that they doing nothing wrong!?
Please ANet, make up your mind! Show us a strong position! Ban a dozen of the most active (or rather most inactive) leechers, announce that you've banned hundred and I guarantee you the problem will reduce itself to almost negligible annoyance the next day.

that my friend was the stupidest use of a definition ive seen so far.....

1st of all there is no rule on bieng AFK in gw, nor there ever shud be, and as for the leechers.. grow a pair of balls and deal with it i kno its a saad situation but there is no way to fix this porblem.. actualy i lied ther e is way i.e /boot player name perhaps? and if 3/4 of team does it mayb the boot? thaz the only way i can think of that will fix it. and there is absolutly no reason and justification to ban leechers

Xenrath · Jul 08, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Eh, where were those comments taken from/which thread?

Some kind of vote-to-kick system for parties would be very handy. Encountered increasing numbers of freeloading slackers who just happen to need to go afk or some other excuse and then just HAPPEN to come back at the end of the mission/quest or just before the end.

How irritating is that these lazy bums taking a free ride off the effort of others? Something should be done about it.

"Got to go, bye!" - then remains in party and doesn't quit (long quest, got more than few insults and comments from the remainder of the party as we continued on)

"I'm making this monk into a 55 later on" then when quest starts "Got to have dinner!" - I tell the rest of the group hell with that, I'm not carrying some slacker through a long quest.. walked back into town, others left him too. Heard that excuse before.

"brb" - or some other useless excuse, then the slacker goes off for entire duration and comes back after quest/mission is completed.

One common theme - annoyed and pissed off players remaining in the party, while some selfish freeloading toerag takes advantage. Most/all of the rest wishing they could kick the freeloader. I'd use more harsh language to describe these lowlife, but I'd probably get banned... what they're doing is basically saying "your time is worthless and what's important is I get to the next part, at your expense"

Seriously, put in some kind of vote-to-kick system, vote initiator has to give a reason which is relayed to all the party, then a majority is required for the kick to be approved.

If some of you don't mind being used (and abused) by all means, go right ahead but I think "growing a pair of balls" means actually standing up to it and doing something about it. Which we can't as there's no vote/kick mechanism... and that's why people get away with it.

Ira Blinks · Jul 08, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogmar

It definitely does not work as intended, but there's nothing wrong with the game itself, it's the players.
I do see this as a huge problem, but the argument you put up is full of flaws starting with the thought that this is a Bug

As a seasoned software developer myself allow me to disagree with that statement.
Bug is not just something that causes crash. System that allows unintended use by all means is broken.

Sarah Pyers · Jul 08, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

sorry but vote to kick is not a good idea in anyway at all.

oh, sweet, a green dropped for me!
vote kicked...

well you get the idea, if Anet went this route theyd have to do something with item drops and assigning as well.

Xenrath · Jul 08, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quite simple: items assigned to someone go with them, much like the current system of drops appearing in a window after mission completed. They can always take screenshots and report it or something if it's been abused.

Anet I'm sure has complete logs of everything, so they'd have log of the Vote reason as well to back it up.

BahamutKaiser · Jul 08, 2006, 02:06 AM // 02:06

I ran a couple of ideas for ranking players based on reliability by Gaile in the past. Whether they can or will be used in the future is up to Anet developement. Banning people for abandoning their team is not acceptable, they are not doing anything which breaks the game, nor are there any rules saying they cannot go AFK.

A system of ranks and recognition so people can realize whether each person is a dedicated player would be a great way to allow parties to find people they know they can rely one, but banning peoples accounts for being lazy isn't right.

NJudson · Jul 08, 2006, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Vote to kick has been discussed in other threads before and I believe the general consensus is that on the surface it sounds great and would come in handy, but when you really get down to it, this feature would ultimately be a bad idea. Vote to kick can be abused and while you fix the problem of afk folks you create a possibility of problems where a team of "jerks" (or what have you) booting players that shouldn't be kicked.

Ira Blinks · Jul 08, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

Banning people for abandoning their team is not acceptable, they are not doing anything which breaks the game, nor are there any rules saying they cannot go AFK.

in the scope of just one game - yes...
Once again, systematic use of the known exploit is a violation and should be bannable.

Quote:

A system of ranks and recognition so people can realize whether each person is a dedicated player would be a great way to allow parties to find people they know they can rely one, but banning peoples accounts for being lazy isn't right.

if there is something GW doesn't need it is another tool for discrimination, tyvm.

ilovecp · Jul 08, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Oh for God's sake, people being AFK is not a bug - it's called BAD BEHAVIOUR.

Ira Blinks · Jul 08, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovecp

Oh for God's sake, people being AFK is not a bug - it's called BAD BEHAVIOUR.

where did I say that people going afk is a bug?
Read the stuff you wrote before you hit submit - this doesn't even make any sense.
THE SYSTEM that rewards players that are not playing the game is a bug.

shadowfell · Jul 08, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Yet, while they banned hundreds of accounts 'accidentally' due to 'misconduct', leading the people to believe that they had all been banned due to the amount of afk time that they had spent on a 9 ring spot in shing jea, AN does absolutely nothing, and will never do anything about these afk leechers.

It is truly hilarious, because by doing nothing, AN is ruining their own faction farming mini games. Aspenwood, Jade Quarry, even at times, Amatz Basin is riddled with a leecher or two. AN doesn't want to give out their game for free, because hey, that's a free ride, you have to buy the game to play. So tell me again why I or anyone else would want to work to win at any of the above mentioned places, hence giving some loser afk account, or bot free faction?

Roupe · Jul 08, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Another reason why vote kicking shouldnt be so easy

A-Oh sweet, we have reached "insert green dropping boss name here"
B-Yes it was a tough distance , but we dont need you A for defeating him
A was vote kicked

ilovecp · Jul 08, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

where did I say that people going afk is a bug?
Read the stuff you wrote before you hit submit - this doesn't even make any sense.
THE SYSTEM that rewards players that are not playing the game is a bug.

Perhaps I should've said, people going AFK isn't DUE to bugs.

Seriously YOU are the one who doesn't know what you're rambling on about. What does this whole AFK issue have to do with bugs at all? And while we're on it, HOW do you propose to ""solve"" this ""bug"" of yours then? You CAN'T fix people going AFK, you can only deter AGAINST it.

They already said they're looking into it, but all you're doing here is whine about your silly little opinion. WHo cares if it is a """bug""", the fact is they are aware of the issue.

Ira Blinks · Jul 08, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilovecp

Perhaps I should've said, people going AFK isn't DUE to bugs.

duh, thank you for proving my point...

As for the rest of your post, I am for you think you flamebaiting me, while in fact you the one flaming. I never said a bad word to you. But you think you have a right to bash me bacuse you apparently you know stuff about everything. Here is a newsflash - you don't. I do, because that is my area of expertise.

ilovecp · Jul 08, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

duh, thank you for proving my point...

As for the rest of your post, I am for you think you flamebaiting me, while in fact you the one flaming. I never said a bad word to you. But you think you have a right to bash me bacuse you apparently you know stuff about everything. Here is a newsflash - you don't. I do, because that is my area of expertise.

HA! I guess somebody's ego needs a huge reality check.

And thanks for proving your WHAT point? That you took people's words too literally or what?

Samuel Dravis · Jul 08, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Perhaps the vote kick option should ONLY be available after the end of the mission (just like the skip cutscene button) and then it only be enabled if the player has not contributed substantially to the party via damage to the enemy or healing/buffing the team somehow within the last 5 minutes). That way people couldn't kick innocent people and you could prevent them from getting faction/next mission by going afk... Obviously wouldn't work with green farming though.